An Interview with Tommy Eriksson from The Satanic Order: The Development, Origins, and History of Swedish Satanism and C.A.O.S. Satanism

An Interview with Tommy Eriksson from The Satanic Order: The Development, Origins, and History of Swedish Satanism and C.A.O.S. Satanism

The Satanic Order existed before the Swedish Satanic Church took shape. How would you describe the original vision behind The Satanic Order during the 1990s?

The vision had not yet become grand in scope, as we were very young and inexperienced at the time. We knew that we wanted to learn more and that The Satanic Order would become a gathering place where we could grow together. We had a very primitive degree system, or at least formulated ideas about one. As an organization, we did not exist for very long, but we nevertheless achieved a fairly wide reach both within and beyond Sweden's borders before, together with others, helping to found the Swedish Satanic Church.

When the Swedish Satanic Church was founded in 1998, one of its goals was to change the media's image of Satanism in Sweden. Do you think you succeeded?

The focus of the Swedish Satanic Church very quickly ceased to be that of a school of learning with a degree system and instead became directed toward changing the public image of Satanism. To a large extent, we succeeded in doing so through frequent participation in the media—radio, television, and national newspapers—but also through school projects and various educational assignments.

What were the biggest differences between the Swedish Satanic environment of the 1990s and that of today?

The 1990s were marked by the Satanic Panic and opposition from a harsher and more militant form of Christianity, where threats and violence were unfortunately not uncommon ways of attempting to silence us—perhaps not all members, but at least those of us who stood at the forefront and were visible in the media. We were also younger and more radicalized, partly as a response to that external pressure. Today, we have matured. We live in a calmer environment and have had many years of relative peace in which to devote ourselves to inner work rather than defending ourselves against external attacks, both verbal and, in some cases, physical.

The Swedish Satanic Church functioned early on as both a religious organization, a network, and a cultural meeting place. Was it a conscious decision to build something larger than just a magical order?

It was entirely deliberate. It was something that had already been present since the days of The Satanic Order but never had the opportunity to fully develop within the framework of that organization. Perhaps this also lay in its structure—after all, there is a difference between the framework of a church and that of an order, whether Christian or Satanic.

You actively worked through interviews, schools, media, and public outreach. How important was it for you to create a "public" Satanism rather than a hidden underground movement?

It became a focus that both was and still is important in my view, even though I would ideally have liked to see both approaches exist simultaneously. But the Swedish Satanic Church simply had to focus on what it was built for and what it functioned best as, and be allowed to continue in its natural form.

You have described Satanism as something far greater than merely LaVeyan individualism. What do you still believe is lacking in many modern interpretations of Satanism?

I miss an esoteric depth that does more than merely touch upon the concepts of magic and esotericism. At the same time, I believe Satanism should also be allowed to remain a simple philosophy of everyday life that does not have to be overly complex. What I miss is the possibility, in certain contexts, of going deeper—to truly descend into the darkness and see how far one can go without remaining on the surface.

The Swedish Satanic Church lay dormant for many years. What changed within you that made you want to resume the work?

The Swedish Satanic Church has gone dormant on several occasions, sometimes for periods lasting years. The last time, I decided that I had done my part as chairman, and "Stalo" assumed that role. This gave me the freedom to devote myself to entirely different pursuits alongside it, allowing me to operate on several levels simultaneously while also giving the Swedish Satanic Church the opportunity to adopt a more modern direction.

The Satanic Order helped create the Swedish Satanic Church but has now separated and reopened as an independent structure. Why did this separation become necessary?

There were several of us, both within and outside the Swedish Satanic Church, who genuinely missed The Satanic Order's original focus on esotericism and its initiatory structure. At the same time, there had been a clear turn toward chaos-gnosticism in general and the concept of C.A.O.S. in particular, to such an extent that it was no longer compatible with the framework within which the Swedish Satanic Church operates.

C.A.O.S. represents a concept and an idea that, especially within the context of a closed initiatory order, cannot be reconciled with the form of the Swedish Satanic Church—neither philosophically nor morally. Modern Satanism generally rests upon a morality or antimorality, whereas C.A.O.S. rests upon amorality, or the absence of morality. Modern Satanism is public by nature, whereas C.A.O.S. is rooted in secrecy. Modern Satanism often lacks esoteric depth, while C.A.O.S. requires a clear esoteric focus. For that reason, The Satanic Order became the only form capable of carrying and embodying C.A.O.S.

How does the new version of The Satanic Order differ from both the original order and other Satanic organizations?

The original The Satanic Order was theistic, and the new one is as well, but with a significantly stronger emphasis on practical Draconian alchemy, chaos-gnosticism, and above all the concept of C.A.O.S.

Will The Satanic Order be more initiatory, more philosophical, or more operationally magical in orientation than the Swedish Satanic Church?

The Satanic Order is an initiatory order, open only to a select few individuals who wish to take esotericism and personal magical work to a new level. In practice, TSO is anti-philosophical in the sense that it has little interest in Satanic philosophy as such and instead has a clear orientation toward C.A.O.S. and operative alchemy, which stands in direct contrast to the Swedish Satanic Church.

Is the reopening of The Satanic Order a return to its roots or the beginning of something entirely new?

Both. The Satanic Order is clearly traditionalist and built upon a Satanic heritage while distancing itself from modernism, yet it is simultaneously the first Satanic organization to fully embrace C.A.O.S. as a model.

Are there plans for international lodges, collaborations, or projects connected to The Satanic Order outside Sweden?

It is highly doubtful that TSO will establish lodges, as it is not in its nature to seek either larger membership numbers or public gatherings to any significant extent. We have friends, and we will continue to value those friendships, but our focus lies on an inner and closed environment for a small number of highly dedicated members.

Early chaos-gnostic circles were often heavily influenced by black metal aesthetics and extremism in expression. How do you view the relationship between aesthetics and actual philosophy today?

I believe one can retain the aesthetics while moving away from the need to explain chaos and instead simply live it. Some degree of philosophy may still be necessary, if only to provide direction or a goal, but philosophy and morality easily become dogmatic. Even antimorality can become dogmatic. The Satanic Order should therefore not focus on such matters, but solely on the practice of living through C.A.O.S.

Chaos-gnosticism often moves between mythology, psychology, and metaphysics. Do you see these as objective realities or as initiatory languages of transformation?

Even if certain symbolic languages are not physical truths in themselves, they nevertheless constitute a form of objective reality insofar as they can be applied within functioning systems and produce tangible effects.

Many associate chaos-gnosticism with "anti-cosmic Satanism," yet your later writings on C.A.O.S. seem to describe a self-organizing process rather than a simple denial of cosmos. Has your philosophy changed?

The difference between chaos-gnostic or anti-cosmic Satanism and C.A.O.S. as a concept is that the latter seeks Satanic gnosis by penetrating chaos through order/cosmos, rather than standing in opposition to it. Order thereby ceases to be something in polemical conflict with chaos and instead becomes neutral. It is an amoral stance that is magically necessary for "S"—Satanae within C.A.O.S.—to experience itself.

How did the idea for the concept of "C.A.O.S." emerge, and when did you realize that Chaos, Ab, Ordo, and Satanae functioned as a coherent system?

The concept emerged from an attempt to place C.A.O.S. in relation to itself, making it self-explanatory and self-experiential. This was achieved by placing periods between the letters. Initially, it existed primarily as a translation—"Chaos through Satan's Order"—where "through" was understood merely as a word. Over time, however, I realized that "ab/through" could also be understood as penetration and transcendence, and from there a deeper structure emerged in which each letter acquired its own function and relationship to the whole.

In C.A.O.S., chaos is presented not as destruction but as pure potential. Is this an attempt to redefine "darkness" beyond moralism?

Yes. While earlier forms of Satanism, which in one way or another still rest upon Nietzschean philosophy, often focus on questions of morality—even when expressed as antimorality—that was never Nietzsche's ultimate goal, but rather a means to an end. Amorality, or non-morality, is instead the principle that unlocks the path toward the Übermensch and the free spirit in the Nietzschean sense. We move, to use Nietzsche's own terms, "beyond good and evil."

"Ab" almost appears to be the most important aspect of the model—the passage between states. Is transformation more important than the end goal in your philosophy?

Ab is not the most important aspect of C.A.O.S., but it is the most subtle—the aspect that does not lend itself easily to definition. Transformation is not necessarily more important than the end goal; rather, the end goal may itself be transformation. The whole and the synthesis are always greater than the individual parts, and without the parts, the whole cannot be understood.

You describe Ordo as "temporary geometry." Are all religious and magical systems fundamentally just temporary stabilizations of chaos?

Everything moves toward its own dissolution, whether we speak in direct, metaphysical, or philosophical terms. Ordo, cosmos, or structure can never be anything other than temporary stabilizations of chaos in different forms. Chaos is perhaps the only thing that is not temporary—it is like the trapezoid's ninth angle, forever returning to itself.

Satanae is described as a self-reflexive totality rather than a personified Devil. How does this differ from classical theistic Satanism?

"Satan," in the classical sense, is a personified Devil, but Satanae within C.A.O.S. is the point at which this figure experiences itself as something greater than the sum of its parts, including itself. Satanae is Satan raised to the power of itself—something akin to 10 raised to the power of 10—something vastly exceeding its foundational components.

C.A.O.S. describes reality as something that becomes conscious of itself through chaos and passage. Is this fundamentally an ontology, an initiatory model, or both?

The model contains influences from Norse cosmology, Kabbalah, alchemy, Nietzsche, and chaos magic. 

Do you see C.A.O.S. as a synthesis of previous systems or as the beginning of something new?

It is in the nature of C.A.O.S. to be both a synthesis of what came before and the beginning of something new. It is not either/or—it is both at the same time.

Do you believe C.A.O.S. can evolve into an actual magical and philosophical tradition in its own right rather than remaining merely a concept?

Yes. The Satanic Order has a clear focus on C.A.O.S. as a concept, which will be integrated into what The Satanic Order originally was. Hopefully, this synthesis will serve as the greenhouse in which C.A.O.S. can develop beyond philosophy and become a tradition in its own right.

If you were to summarize the entire C.A.O.S. model in a single sentence, what is its innermost essence?

Chaos through Satan's Order.

For inquiries, you can contact either Tommy Eriksson or The Satanic Order by emailing tsothesatanicorder@gmail.com or by visiting the blog.

https://thesatanicordertso.blogspot.com

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